Here Zach interviews Daniel Natal—author of Actionable Ethics (2022) and host of the now-on-hiatus The Daniel Natal Show, on which Zach appeared last year—about the historical and contemporary implications of the international bond market for geopolitics.
Daniel first explains (at ~2:45) the historical development of the international bond market and how the current Anglo-American financial system evolved from when the Baring Brothers created the concept of an international market for sovereign debt in the 18th century, allowing for cross-border investment in government bonds that financed infrastructure projects, wars, and nation-building efforts. Accordingly, Daniel emphasizes the bond market’s role in shaping global events through sovereign debt, detailing how this system has influenced revolutions, nation-building, and economic policies worldwide, explaining how the British Empire used financial instruments to create new countries and reshape global politics, citing examples from South America and Europe.
Through this lens the interlocutors discuss the potential purchase of Greenland and the historic role of the bond market in maintaining economic stability in comparison to its current fragility, particularly in Europe, where negative interest rates emerged in the previous decade. Daniel references (at ~10:34) Edward Dowd’s analysis of the 2020–’23 coronavirus pandemic as a potential cover for protecting the bond market.
Discussing (at ~21:04) the impact of technological changes on global governance, Daniel considers the potential implications of cryptocurrency and digital currencies on traditional financial systems. He explains how these technologies could further disrupt existing power structures and potentially lead to new forms of governance, with the current financial system therefore required to adapt to these new realities. From there, Daniel suggests (at ~29:46) potential solutions to the current system, advocating for a return to more traditional, community-based social structures, emphasizing the importance of family and local governance as alternatives to the current global financial system that he calls (at ~35:39) “anti-human.”
Their conversation also ranges (at ~52:08) across the future of nation-states and financial systems, potentially leading to the emergence of smaller, more localized systems. Daniel explains how technology is driving this change, comparing it (at ~1:21:36) to how industrial revolutions have historically disrupted social structures, leading to urbanization, family breakdown, and social problems. To address these, he favors Robert Owen’s vision of community-based solutions and criticizes modern society’s attempts to address symptoms rather than underlying social issues. This modern society, he tells us (at ~1:24:32) lacks effective social machinery compared to traditional religious institutions, with the focus on economic metrics over social cohesion has led to surveillance states and technological solutions rather than addressing fundamental human needs.
Returning to the potential disruptions that emerging financial technologies may present, he warns (at ~1:27:00) about the potential dangers of cryptocurrency systems, particularly how they could be used to implement expiration dates on money, prevent wealth accumulation, and force constant participation in the economic system. He also discusses how this connects to broader issues of social control and the treatment of less economically productive demographics, such as elderly populations.
The conversation concludes (at ~1:29:44) with a discussion of solutions, emphasizing the importance of returning to family-centered, community-based social structures. Daniel argues that the answer lies not in new economic systems, but in restoring traditional social bonds and human-centered ways of living.
On the whole, Daniel presents a compelling critique of the modern financial system that emphasizes its historic role in shaping global events and its increasing fragility today. He warns of the dangers posed by emerging financial technologies while advocating for a return to traditional, community-based social structures as a means of restoring stability and human-centered governance. Ultimately, the discussion underscores the tension between financial globalization and localized social resilience, leaving us with much to consider about the future of economic and political systems—which we here at Radio Free Pizza will surely continue working to unpack.
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